>”I’m not sure why putting attention on a body part would cause unlatching when smooth muscle isn’t under conscious control.”
My understanding is that the goal is to signal safety to the part of the nervous system that does control those muscles. If the NS consistently subconsciously scans for threat or safety, we can at least consciously play with the scanner. I think it’s why dancing is so regulating for so many people - would I be wiggling & gyrating like this if danger was around? Nope, so I must be safe. I think internal focus can produce a similar effect. Would I be relaxing my body & focusing all my attention internally if danger was around?
Safety comes from oxytocin - so stuff that increases that
Also embodied metta at jhana levels creates a solid feeling of safety. Had spontaneous dissolutions of tension for 3+hrs on metta jhana. Huge feeling of lightness post that..
Exploring that might be fruitful.. as much as forceful latch opening..
Re. Meditation during exercise: I like to put my sleep mask on while mindfully cycling on my indoor fixed position bike with my warm supportive hand on my heart as my object of meditation
Great material! My issue was the same, I could not verify Mike's claims re smooth muscles. The "blood goes first then does neuronal activation occure" seems also unsupported.
However unclenching is still a great model even if factually incorrect, same as the polyvagal theory.
Other unclenching practices that I've found effective or suspect to be so:
- breathwork(in itself or before meditation) - definitely helpful
- doing meditation during repetitive cardio (i.e. indoor cycling) - some interesting experiences
- TRE probably closely works on these - very useful
- supplements or medicines that relax smooth muscle: gingko, or drotaverine hcl - haven't tried these
- just relaxants: cbd, tulsi, coriander extract, baikal skullcap, gaba, reishi, poria, magnesium acetyltaurate - very effective
> The "blood goes first then does neuronal activation occure" seems also unsupported.
Yeah, the model is speculative, but this part can be falsified/verified in various ways — we just need a way to measure tension (I think Mike talks about fMRI?).
Thanks for the list, I'll be checking it out. Are you on twitter? TRE had multiple discussion rounds there recently
Yes, I think he also mentioned ultrasound, it would be great to have an actual system with tools to quantify the amount of this type of tension in the body.
Yes, but I wasn't aware of it. I do try to limit twitter bc it seems the algo is determined to throw random politics and whatever ragebait bs is doing the rounds atm into the feed even though I'm only TPOT subbed.
Hey Steve, you might enjoy reading Jacob et al 2023 -- review article that notes evidence that changes in blood flow precede changes in neural dynamics:
Nice, thanks, I might do an experiment once or twice with some of those. Currently CBD is the one with the highest impact for me of the supplements listed.
Forgot massage, which is also a great way to actually physically relax the musculature - I find it very easy to bring up joy and ease and unclench tensions after a good massage.
"simply taking time to feel your body and put your attention into latched tissues can release them."
That has been my experience as well. I have developed my own little technique around this idea, where you invite tight areas of your body to soften and spontaneously make tiny stretching or unwinding movements - without forcing, bracing, or following a scripted routine. I call it Intuitive Release.
Good way (at least for me) to melt the type of tension that comes up in meditation is to try and hold it as equivocally as possible, and then after enough time it starts to transform. The wider nervous system figures it out, or something like that is what i’m thinking
This whack-a-mole analogy really resonates. I've noticed the same thing where relaxing one area just makes tension pop up somwhere else, almost like the body is guarding somthing. The idea that smooth muscle latches could persist for months without conscious control is fasinating. Do you find that tracking the specific locations of tension during meditation helps you identify patterns over time?
I definitely correlate the muscle tension with neurotic modes of thinking and specific memories. But that's skeletal muscle. I have yet to try the smooth muscle stuff I outlined — I wrote the post as a snapshot of my current thinking trying to make sense what's going on.
This sounds like a reason why botox works for people in reddit.com/r/noburp . Maybe the most interesting part is that people are cured of RCP-D even after the botox wears off.
Couldn't agree more. This insight about our bodies holding tension as a defense, even against relaxation, is so profound. It makes total sense with the mental load you've shared in your Inkhaven posts. It's like our internal system is running a protective algorithm against perceived vulnerabilites. Very smart.
>”I’m not sure why putting attention on a body part would cause unlatching when smooth muscle isn’t under conscious control.”
My understanding is that the goal is to signal safety to the part of the nervous system that does control those muscles. If the NS consistently subconsciously scans for threat or safety, we can at least consciously play with the scanner. I think it’s why dancing is so regulating for so many people - would I be wiggling & gyrating like this if danger was around? Nope, so I must be safe. I think internal focus can produce a similar effect. Would I be relaxing my body & focusing all my attention internally if danger was around?
Safety was huge for me to unlatch.
Safety comes from oxytocin - so stuff that increases that
Also embodied metta at jhana levels creates a solid feeling of safety. Had spontaneous dissolutions of tension for 3+hrs on metta jhana. Huge feeling of lightness post that..
Exploring that might be fruitful.. as much as forceful latch opening..
Re. Meditation during exercise: I like to put my sleep mask on while mindfully cycling on my indoor fixed position bike with my warm supportive hand on my heart as my object of meditation
This sounds super interesting! What are the effects for you compared to the regular meditation?
Great material! My issue was the same, I could not verify Mike's claims re smooth muscles. The "blood goes first then does neuronal activation occure" seems also unsupported.
However unclenching is still a great model even if factually incorrect, same as the polyvagal theory.
Other unclenching practices that I've found effective or suspect to be so:
- breathwork(in itself or before meditation) - definitely helpful
- doing meditation during repetitive cardio (i.e. indoor cycling) - some interesting experiences
- TRE probably closely works on these - very useful
- supplements or medicines that relax smooth muscle: gingko, or drotaverine hcl - haven't tried these
- just relaxants: cbd, tulsi, coriander extract, baikal skullcap, gaba, reishi, poria, magnesium acetyltaurate - very effective
> The "blood goes first then does neuronal activation occure" seems also unsupported.
Yeah, the model is speculative, but this part can be falsified/verified in various ways — we just need a way to measure tension (I think Mike talks about fMRI?).
Thanks for the list, I'll be checking it out. Are you on twitter? TRE had multiple discussion rounds there recently
Yes, I think he also mentioned ultrasound, it would be great to have an actual system with tools to quantify the amount of this type of tension in the body.
Yes, but I wasn't aware of it. I do try to limit twitter bc it seems the algo is determined to throw random politics and whatever ragebait bs is doing the rounds atm into the feed even though I'm only TPOT subbed.
Hey Steve, you might enjoy reading Jacob et al 2023 -- review article that notes evidence that changes in blood flow precede changes in neural dynamics:
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/human-neuroscience/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2023.976036/full
Hey Mike, wow, thanks!
Pregabaline, Beta blockers, Benzodiazepines like Alpraxolam (but they are "unhealthy" but might be worth it once in 2 weeks or so)
Nice, thanks, I might do an experiment once or twice with some of those. Currently CBD is the one with the highest impact for me of the supplements listed.
Forgot massage, which is also a great way to actually physically relax the musculature - I find it very easy to bring up joy and ease and unclench tensions after a good massage.
Agree, I had a massage two days ago and it was AMAZING.
"simply taking time to feel your body and put your attention into latched tissues can release them."
That has been my experience as well. I have developed my own little technique around this idea, where you invite tight areas of your body to soften and spontaneously make tiny stretching or unwinding movements - without forcing, bracing, or following a scripted routine. I call it Intuitive Release.
https://dirk-loss.de/intuitive-release/
Good way (at least for me) to melt the type of tension that comes up in meditation is to try and hold it as equivocally as possible, and then after enough time it starts to transform. The wider nervous system figures it out, or something like that is what i’m thinking
This whack-a-mole analogy really resonates. I've noticed the same thing where relaxing one area just makes tension pop up somwhere else, almost like the body is guarding somthing. The idea that smooth muscle latches could persist for months without conscious control is fasinating. Do you find that tracking the specific locations of tension during meditation helps you identify patterns over time?
I definitely correlate the muscle tension with neurotic modes of thinking and specific memories. But that's skeletal muscle. I have yet to try the smooth muscle stuff I outlined — I wrote the post as a snapshot of my current thinking trying to make sense what's going on.
Great stuff, subscribed!
Good post!
This reminds me of Alan Watts. He would frequently refer to the source of the ego as being subconscious muscular tension.
Self as a pattern of tension is definitely a productive frame!
This sounds like a reason why botox works for people in reddit.com/r/noburp . Maybe the most interesting part is that people are cured of RCP-D even after the botox wears off.
Couldn't agree more. This insight about our bodies holding tension as a defense, even against relaxation, is so profound. It makes total sense with the mental load you've shared in your Inkhaven posts. It's like our internal system is running a protective algorithm against perceived vulnerabilites. Very smart.
did you try topical or oral DMSO?